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Friday, May 6, 2011

the destroyer

[quote author=Whrose link=topic=10026.msg82890#msg82890 date=1304694511]
I agree Kaiiju. There is a big difference between opinions of what the Bible is saying and what the words used in the Bible are.

There are 2 different verses which are keys in this discussion. Both are speaking of the bottomless pit.

(KJ)Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, [i]which is[/i] the angel OF the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

NASB Rev 9:11 They have as king over them, the angel of the abyss; his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in the Greek he has the name Apollyon.

[i]Abaddon and Apollyon mean Destroyer.[/i]

OF= a preposition meaning:made from; belonging to; about; connected to; included among

Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; [b]and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit[/b], and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Doug has stated in the discussion that the beast which ascends out of the bottomless pit is different from Apollyon. With careful reading I agree but they have a shared place in common and that place is the bottomless pit, and a shared function...destruction.
But there is no scripture regarding apollyon rising from the pit, or getting out of it, nor being released from it, if appolyon is the previously mentioned angel, is ironyc that him is the one who jails the devil, if appolyon is a God's angel, I dont think he will care about being called a devil, but its interesting handle all the clear possibilities that bible offers,
and not give up to think about different theoryes,
but I pressume you believe apollyon is not the angel with the key, but a different one... but if you believe that the name "destroyer" descrives a negative function for itself, its not so, but a function, someone who destroys... but what destroys? the bible says he is an angel, there is no doubt it says so, it says its an angel of abbys, it says so, but the info that its a fallen angell is not found anywhere else, but only in catholical theories that there are devil angels rulling hell (dualism), but the truth is that the bible only talks about evil angels waiting judgement in tartarus...

the word 'of' means the same in most of the languages,  OF= a preposition meaning:made from; belonging to; about; connected to; included among
I would add 'from'. but
[b]belonging to; about; connected to; included among[/b] states perfectly the idea that it could be talking as 'him' being in charge of the abbys. There are seven angels, all of them have different functions.

I dont understand clearly why is so hard to see the possible other side of classic interpretations?¿? but its a matter of ideas I think...
I think, wherent angels from God the angels who [b]destroyed [/b]all the enemies from israel in the OT? what means destroy?

/dɪˈstrɔɪ/ Show Spelled[dih-stroi] Show IPA
–verb (used with object)
to reduce (an object) to useless fragments, a useless form, or remains, as by rending, burning, or dissolving; injure beyond repair or renewal; demolish; ruin; annihilate.
to put an end to; extinguish.
to kill; slay.

/spɔɪl/ Show Spelled [spoil] Show IPA verb, spoiled or spoilt, spoil·ing, noun
–verb (used with object)
to damage severely or harm (something), especially with reference to its excellence, value, usefulness, etc.: The water stain spoiled the painting. Drought spoiled the corn crop.
to diminish or impair the quality of; affect detrimentally: Bad weather spoiled their vacation.
to impair, damage, or harm the character or nature of (someone) by unwise treatment, excessive indulgence, etc.: to spoil a child by pampering him.
1.  disfigure, [b]destroy[/b], demolish, mar. Spoil, ruin, wreck  agree in meaning to reduce the value, quality, usefulness, etc., of anything. Spoil  is the general term: to spoil a delicate fabric. Ruin  implies doing completely destructive or irreparable injury: to ruin one's health. Wreck  implies a violent breaking up or demolition: to wreck oneself with drink; to wreck a building.[/quote]

So pay attention to this quotes, and about whom is in them talking about...
[quote]job 20The wicked man travaileth with pain all his days, and the number of years is hidden to the oppressor.

21A dreadful sound is in his ears: in prosperity [b]the destroyer[/b] shall come upon him.
[quote]ac 12:23 And immediately the [b][size=14pt]angel of the Lord[/size] [/b][b][u]smote him[/u][/b], because he [b]gave not God the glor[/b]y: and he [b]was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost[/b].[/quote]

[quote]heb 11:28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he[b] that destroyed the firstborn[/b] should touch them[/quote]

[quote] jer 51Though Babylon should mount up to heaven, and though she should fortify the height of her strength, [b]yet from me shall spoilers come unto her[/b], saith the LORD.
54A sound of a cry cometh from Babylon, and great destruction from the land of the Chaldeans:
55Because the [b]LORD hath spoiled Babylon[/b], and [b]destroyed out of her the great voice;[/b] when her waves do roar like great waters, a noise of their voice is uttered:
56Because[b] the spoiler [/b]is come upon her, even upon Babylon, and her mighty men are taken, every one of their bows is broken: for the LORD God of recompences shall surely requite.
57And I will make drunk her princes, and her wise men, her captains, and her rulers, and her mighty men: and they shall sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the King, whose name is the[b] LORD of hosts. [/b]

[quote]1 co 10-9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 10Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and [b][size=12pt]were destroyed of the destroyer[/size].[/b]

[quote][size=12pt]exod 12:23[b]For [u][size=14pt]the LORD will pass through to smite[/size][/u] the Egyptians[/b][/size]; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts,[b] [size=12pt][u]the LORD[/u][/size] will pass over the door[/b], and will not suffer[b] [size=14pt]the destroyer[/size][/b] to come in unto your [size=14pt]houses [u][b]to smite[/b][/u] [/size][you].[/quote]

deu 9:3Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God [is] he which goeth over before thee; [as] a consuming fire he [size=12pt][b]shall destroy them[/b][/size], and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, [size=12pt][b]and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee[/b][/size].[/quote]

[quote]is 30:30 And the LORD shall cause his glorious voice to be heard, and shall shew the lighting down [b]of his arm[/b], with the indignation of [his] anger, and [with] the flame of a devouring fire, [with] scattering, and tempest, and hailstones.

[quote]ps 18
37I have pursued mine enemies, and overtaken them: neither did I turn again till they were consumed.

38I have wounded them that they were not able to rise: they are fallen under my feet.

39For thou hast girded me with strength unto the battle: thou hast subdued under me those that rose up against me.

40Thou hast also given me the necks of mine enemies; [b]that I might destroy them that hate me.[/b]

41They cried, but there was none to save them: even unto the LORD, but he answered them not.

42Then [size=12pt][b]did I beat them small as the dust before the wind: I did cast them out as the dirt in the streets.[/b][/size]

43Thou hast delivered me from the strivings of the people; and thou hast made me the head of the heathen: a people whom I have not known shall serve me. [/quote]

So as you have seen the name "destroyer" has been used several times to describe the one who executes judgement from God.

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